Answering Your Sales Question Live

What what are you selling to who? >> Um I have a membership business model. I teach people a Chinese technique. Uh recently I narrow down my niche and teach them how to fix uh digestion problems related to their anxiety, stress or emotional issues. >> How do you sell? >> Yeah. >> How do you sell? >> Uh I launch I make ads to a webinar to a webinar and I that one, >> right? And you're saying that closing 14% from the webinar of what? Attendees or total leads? >> Um, total leads attendees maybe higher. >> Okay. So, I I think you're wrong that 14% is not too low. 14% if you're actually closing of total leads is insanely high. Um, what's the price point >> uh for Mexico? The price point is like um not really sure like uh 100 >> a month. >> A month? No, for a month. >> You said membership, right? >> Yeah, membership for a month is like 30 35. >> 35. Okay. And so you're saying you're having Okay. So there's two different things. One you started with, I don't want to work in this business forever. We need to disregard that. you're way too small to be thinking about that. Um, like it's not even a relevant comment. Like it's just there's no way. You're way too small. It's not even a consideration. It's just you. Like you're the only thing that's going to make this work right now. Um, so we need to get that out of your head. With regards to the conversion thing, your conversion rates are fine. So it's probably I'm guessing what the problem you're trying to solve is that you you can't spend as profitably as you want. Is that correct? >> No, I fixed that. I spent recently 50k on ads and I got back 20k. >> Okay. So one to one. >> Yeah. >> Okay. But then it continues monthly, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. How long do people stay on average? >> Um around 6 months. I think LTB is also a problem and I think with the recommendations you gave me it can be fixed but I recently make the changes. Okay. Then I mean the delivery of this business is online and probably mostly automated. Correct. >> Yes. >> Okay. So then what stops you from spending more money? >> Uh right now it was like uh between fear and not narrowing down the the niche. But in the launch the launch is very very cheap. People only pay like $5 to get into the launch and I make a premium for like 10 more. >> Yeah. >> And I think that's the problem because uh people who get there like I should solve all their life with just that. So maybe I should price prices, but I don't know. >> Dude, I don't think this is like none of that matters though. Like all that matters is you're closing a good percentage of people right from your webinar. >> Mhm. >> Um your LTV to CAC is 6 to1 right now and you're more than breaking even on your ad spend. >> Yeah. >> So like go from 15K to you know 60K in spend and see if you 4x the business >> and that's it. Yeah. Yeah. That will bring the next problems like the manpower and all of these. But >> I dude, you have a pretty scal like think about this like your entire business has scalable traffic with ads, scalable conversion with a webinar and scalable delivery in terms of digital. The whole business is scalable. Like you just need to turn up the dial, which means that you probably just need to make more creative with different angles that appeal to different avatars. It's basically it. >> Like ignore the whole like I mean maybe the thing could be better in terms of conversion, but it's not the constraint. Do you give people an annual option to buy from the webinar? >> Uh I changed because I was giving monthly and four months and I changed to three months and six and uh when they reach the five months we will make a an offer to go into the year. >> Okay. Um I would experiment with just trying to sell the year. >> Okay. >> And then downell them on monthly. So basically launch at the week the year and then hit everyone else up after the webinar is over after you have a cart close or whatever with hey you can get monthly with an extra bonus uh over here. That's it dude. Otherwise I would I mean like that is a thing you could do but at the same time like just spend more money on ads and make more ads. >> Okay >> that's it. And then ignore the whole like I don't want to work in this thing forever thing. It's just not relevant right now. >> Thank you very much. >> You bet. I mean you have a simple you have simple problem simple solution. like like a lot of the pieces are already there, so you're fine. Like could it of course things can be better, but there it is good enough right now that it is not the problem. >> Okay, >> thank you, man. >> Appreciate you. All right, rock and roll. All right, hopefully that was semi-interesting. Uh that was a business that sells some sort of uh Chinese gut thing, I think. I don't know what is what does China say? Have you heard of this thing? >> Oh, yeah. Regular customer. >> Oh, your regular question. [laughter] All right, who else we got? Brian, what's up? >> What's going on, man? >> Hey, my name's Brian. I run Horizon Recovery in Phoenix, Arizona area. We've been doing about um 12 million a year. We've been flat for eight months, though. We only have about three months of runway left. We've been doing a small cash burn for about eight months. Uh we're adolescent behavioral healthcare, 120 staff. We stabilize kids with mental health and substance crisis from hospital level all the way on down. So just below the hospital level. Uh because of that model, our expenses are pretty much fixed. We're 247 capacity staff. We can't really cut expenses on that. So our leverage is doing beds. We're at 60 to 70% census. As competition is increasing, we need to be closer to 80%. Super high trust industry that comes down a lot of proof. Um and the immediate gap that I've been struggling with is Google reviews and testimonials from families. We've got six independently licensed locations that are working. Uh, and we've got a handful of reviews across all of them. >> And you see more reviews. >> Trying to figure out how to get my staff to do more reviews, more testimonials. They don't like it because of the ethics of kids in crisis. >> Well, that I I I don't know if I buy that one. Not I'm saying like I don't buy their reason. Um, because to me, I'd say, don't you think we should have more kids finding out about our stuff so that they can get help? Don't you think that if more kids thought it was normal, then they wouldn't feel as ashamed of it? Like I I don't even I don't even think they're right. I think it's a I think they're just being cowardly because they don't feel like getting rejected for asking for something. Um and I think you would frame it that way as the ask. Now, that being said, the way that I ensure a low like low-skilled labor uh follows a process like that is that I put I put a cone in the middle of the road. So, what I mean is like if you just say, "Hey, please do this thing." adherence typically is low unless you put a big carrot or a big stick there, right? Like you get fired if you don't do it and sometimes that can be like a little aggressive, right? And so if you put a a cone in the road, it's like um you cannot complete the onboarding process. You cannot exit the patient unless you ask them on the screen like on the exit profile or whatever the whatever the process flow you have is. Um because you're seeing a zillion patients, right? I mean, how many patients are you seeing a day? >> Well, >> or new a week. a week. I don't know, make whatever >> a month we're running about 550 to 600 a month for our community, >> right? And so there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to get 200 new reviews a month like >> and so I think it just has to be it is part of the flow and then it's like hey you do me a favor and and help other kids uh find out about this stuff and not feel ashamed like that's how I would ask. >> I mean that's that's >> we're having is it's families and kids. So the kids are happy, but the families might be out of state. They're local. Like we're flying kids in and out. So it's challenging to figure out the mechanics of how to make this happen. That's kind of where I'm struggling. >> When do you interact with a parent? >> It totally varies. Some of them will come to a graduation. That's the time I'm trying to get my my staff to ask. >> Uh but oftent times we just put a kid on airplane, send them back home. >> So you never talk to the parents at all? >> They do. They talk to them on the phone or via email. >> Well, I'm saying does the staff talk to the parent at all? We talked to him during the sale, right? >> Yeah. >> And after the sale, nothing. >> Well, no, that's I'm sorry. Like when we're coordinating discharge, we're doing step down. They're talking to them on the phones >> and then ask and the family's like, "Sure, I'll do it." And then, you know, they ghost. >> Well, they just have to stay on the line to do it and then give them a cookie for doing it. So, like, hey, we have this cool thing that we give for the kids to help other kids out if you're willing to do it. It's because I think if we make it a benefit for the kid, then the parents are more likely to do it and they can stay on. But I'm guessing they're just not doing it. So it's like right now we don't like we don't they could be ghosting. They also could just not be asking. Um but either way if it is the biggest lever in the business is that it's almost all driven through organic uh reviews. Then it's like that now must become like the main constraint of the business which I don't know if you do from a reporting perspective but like do you do daily huddles with your team? >> Yeah, I make them do daily huddles. Yeah. >> Yeah. And so the first number that we call out in the daily huddle is how many reviews we got the day before. And like if you do that every day, like it will draw people's attention. And if you tell people like, "Oh, so you went zero for seven yesterday." Huh, Sarah? That's weird. Uh it's like they're going to start feeling pretty shitty about it. And like, well, like talk to me what what did they say? Okay, cool. Well, let's pull up the recording, right? And then like watch it. It's like, oh [ __ ] like I'm actually going to be held accountable to this, right? So it's like we have to have uh a good script which is really only two sentences, right? Helping other kids. Let's let's you know and give a cookie to the kid who uh uh the parent does the thing for. Um daily accountability on the team and then ideally account like recordings that we can roleplay if it is if it is the constraint of the business and we need to hit it from like three or four angles. >> What do you think about accountability since I'm running basically six independent locations with independent management independent leadership? Mhm. Well, then it's you holding those six guys and giving them the plan. This is what we need to do. And then they hold the teams accountable. But functionally, it's the same thing. And if one team is better, then that means that one leader is better, which means we probably need to turn some leaders. And I think if they find out that they're getting turned because they're not following it, they will probably follow it. Cuz right now it feels like you're just adding work to their plate. Um but if you're like, "This business will not remain. you will not have a job because no one will have a job because not enough people know about our stuff and so we need to do this. So, does anyone have any objections that I can handle right now? Because let's get it all out. Let's air all the air all the [ __ ] laundry. You know what I mean? And like let's talk about it so that we can all feel good about it. How's that feel? I mean, do you think you can do it? >> Yeah. I'm just I was struggling initially with the push back and just the ownership action because you know I had to sign it but I like your idea of calling it out daily and we have daily um management like director level emails of summaries that go out and putting that as a line item in there. >> It should be the first item. It should be the it should be the headline like until we solve this thing like this is all we talk about. Like one of our one of our portfolio companies had I think I I wrote a thing in Vantage about it. Um the red yellow green system came from this right? Right? There was a churn issue and we're like, "All right, we got to solve churn." And so then churn became daily huddle and it was uh how many client exits did we have and how many stays did we had and then we started a se separate slack channel that was emergency support for any customer that looked like they were at risk and then we just hit it seal team six wise like we just did we just [ __ ] tried and I think and then all of a sudden uh I think churn cut by more than half just by trying. And so if all of a sudden we can get I think you can reasonably get 200 reviews um like that would be but like for you if you got 200 reviews every month like by the end of the year you'd be you know king Pumba. >> Yeah it plan just it got my attention now the last month coming to you. >> No. Yeah. No I get it. Yeah. It's always it's always um it's always speed and number of comm cycles. So it's like if I say it once a month and then I and I bring it back up it's not that important. If I say we're talking about it twice a day, they know it's important. >> That's the angle. >> All right, that was an easy one. [laughter] Appreciate you, babe. Congrats on helping kids, man. Very cool. >> Y >> All right, I actually can't see any chat that's going on. So, ah, now I see the chat. Aha, my bad. I was just frozen on my screen for this whole time. Um, the chat is also tiny tiny chat. Uh, which you know these >> command plus >> command plus. Let's go. Unk is here. There we go. Um, all right. Let's let's look at some here. Um, all right. Before I get into these questions, um, because I I want, honestly, I think last last live I did, I answered like a zillion. I'm se, you know, 16 to 22 and I don't know what to do with my life and my and my business. Um, I as much as I enjoy doing that, I prefer there's a lot of people can answer that question. Um, what I feel like I'm more uniquely skilled at answering is like if you have a business and you are struggling with the business, um, please ask those questions. And specifically today, I'd like to focus on sales related questions. So, for those of you who are struggling with sales and selling customers or selling leads, uh, drop the questions you have in the chat and we will get get to answering. Cool. All right. I will wait. I will wait until I get sales related questions. In the meantime, I will do standup comedy. Uh Mr. Gong, do we have anyone uh lined up or on deck? By the way, >> yep, we got Scott. >> We got Scott on deck. All right. So, chat, while you guys figure out what your sales questions are, I'm going to take Mr. Scott and then uh and then I'm going to go to chat related questions that are answer that are answering sales things. If you don't ask those questions, I'm not going to answer them. Um it's just more fun to keep it themed thematic, if you will. All right, Scott. What's cooking my friend? >> Hey, Scott. How's it going? So, we have a couple weeks of cash from operators on their way out and they need to take over operations. It's a commercial locksmith and door hardware business and I run the sister company. Uh, in my situation with 1.8 top line and 80k bottom line and we have 280,000 in AR, what strategy or offer would you employ to save the business? What's me is a clear path that I can execute myself having to operate two companies and deal with the operating. >> Why are you why do you have two companies? >> So I got placed in to run the security side of it but now the longness side is going down so I have to take over there. >> Do you own the business? >> No. >> Oh okay. Um >> yeah the owner has given everything to me though like I have full signing authority and all that. >> Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, I mean, dude, I I'm going to guess your model is broken. Um, and you it's very very difficult. Like you can have the owner play this like one person does not run two businesses. It does not work. Uh, you can have like Elon Musk, he owns multiple businesses, but he has presidents and CEOs of those companies. Um, and so you basically it's like you have split focus. It's very difficult to get ahead. Um, but the model itself is also broken, but you have barely enough bandwidth to fix anything. You're just trying to keep everything afloat. Like that's the that's the issue. Um, that being said, what are the margins? So, you said 1.8 is one business. What's the other business? >> Uh, 600,000 top and 250 bottom line. >> Okay, that sounds like a much better business. Which one's that? >> Uh, the security business. >> Okay. Um, so which one are you taking over? The locksmith one? >> Yeah, I'm taking over the locksmith. >> Okay. 21 cap. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So then why are you why are you making no money? >> I don't know. We're losing big accounts. Like the no one's doing like the sales motion is just broken. We're setting up quotes and >> well, you should never send quotes out in general. Quotes should always be delivered over the phone and then asked for the sale when the quote is delivered. And then only if they do not say yes, then you book a follow-on meeting where you then have them make the decision on that meeting. But you should bamfam everything. >> Okay, >> so there's fix number one. Um, but again, if you're at 21 LTV to CAC, like you have to be trying to spend money to to lose money in that situation, >> right? Yeah. The with with the other operator um opex went up 150,000 as revenue dropped. >> Yeah. So, I mean, it sounds like you're fat right now and you have to cut from the bottom, cut some expenses. I mean, well, one, if revenue drops, then you're a service business, which means you have you have utilization, but like you have excess capacity. That's if you were at your pre-revenue numbers, but your opex went up by 150 and your revenue dropped. So, you have like extra extra capacity, which means that you have people that you can probably let go. Um, and I'm not like an advocate of like, okay, let's just let, you know, let people go, but at the same time, if the business doesn't survive, everyone get everyone gets let go, right? Um, and so the team that is there, you probably need to look at who are the weaker people on the team. And I'll tell you this, like when you actually cut from the place that you're in right now, you'll be able to just keep all the stars anyways. And they'll be happy because it's all the people who actually like the work and do the work. And they will be happy to see the B, you know, the BNC players uh, not there. And so the whole team's culture will lift because you're getting rid of the the people who are just doing nothing. >> I think that was the big issue because in the last year we had four techs quit. >> Two were fired and now we're left with two. >> Okay. >> So now the the owner and the estimator have gone out on the road. >> Okay. So so then again where where's the opex? How did it go up? >> Um >> like if you again if you have 20 to1 that is the core economic engine of the business. And so like expenses either like either you're calculating 20 to1 wrong uh like or you're not spending anything which is actually a different possibility. So you're spending nothing to get 20 to1. Are you saying 20 to1 because it's all word of mouth and that's how you're getting 20 to1 like or is it 20 to1 like from Google ads or whatever. >> It's it's 20 to1 on the big 10 accounts. >> Okay. >> Our ICP is property management then all the smaller accounts are $5,000 LT. And what's CAC? >> Uh, we're doing nothing for marketing right now. >> Well, then yeah, you don't have 20 to1 LTV to CAC. You have you functionally have unlimited LTV to CAC because CAC is zero. Um, >> but that that's not helpful for for our discussion. Um, and so you probably need to pick one of the following. You either need to do outbound to property managers to do the thing. Uh, or you can run PPC. I would bet outbound would work pretty well because they're almost always property management is always looking for good vendors uh and almost are always dissatisfied with the current vendors. Um and so I I would I would just fully focus on that channel if I want to increase uh how much money we're making and basically do nothing else. >> Would you do LinkedIn or cold call? >> I would probably call because they'll pick up the phone. Yeah, I I appreciate it. >> Dude, you're run like you're running two businesses. Yeah, I mean it is tough. Um the owner should also like this is a small business and so it's up to you to make the money, right? Which means that you're in charge of marketing and sales for this business. Like if the delivery part is kind of handled right now because owner and estimator and the other two texts or whatever are there then we just need to go get business and if we know the accounts that are good then just go target those accounts for outbound. You can always like drive by their office like I mean like there's a lot of ways to do this. >> Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate it because I built what I built on the security side the last 11 months just watching your stuff. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Not too long ago. >> Yeah. And so are you marketing on that side and it's working? >> Oh, I'm all good. We made 250K months. >> Yeah. I think I think there's something to be said there of like I mean when again if two kind of unrelated I mean they're semi-related but they're very different businesses, right? Um, if you've got a business that's that you did on the side that's making 45% net margins and cash flowing and you already have an established acquisition channel, then it would make more sense to just say, "Let's 4x this business and forget about this one and fully focus." You know what I mean? >> Yeah. >> Trying to do like what said differently. You could fix this other business, but with all of that effort, you could 4x the other one and have a million dollar in profit. And so, you lose a million by doing whatever you're going to do on this side to take it from negative or, you know, from basically no margin to $200,000 in margin. It's an $800,000 delta for the same effort. And it's also way less of a headache to do one thing rather than two. >> I'd like to do that. The only thing is that the locksmith goes under >> Yeah. the owner actually goes bankrupt personally because he's personally guaranteed on >> Yeah. Um I don't know what he's personally guaranteed on. But if he does he also own the other business. >> Yeah. >> Well then he probably he could not necessarily go bankrupt. He could make more money in another asset and then pay >> just totally switch focus. >> Yes. Rather switch focus. I would just say the word is focus because think of it like this. You have the same resources that you're working with. If we're saying this is his personal stuff, right? There's x amount of John's [ __ ] If we can reallocate John's [ __ ] to make a million dollars rather than work on it to make an extra 200, we should reallocate the [ __ ] to make a million. And then if there's fixed costs in the side, then we say, how much are truly fixed? Right? Labor is not truly fixed. Software subscriptions are not truly fixed. You might have leases and you like payments on trucks maybe that are truly fixed. But when you actually add only the truly fixed costs up, it might be, I don't know, $10,000 a month, something like that. In which case, great. Then let's just gas the hell out of the security side. It covers the net on that on the other way. And then you're you're off to the races. You basically just have uh a 10k baseline you got to overcome and then you're you're good. So basically steal the A players from the lockman side, bring them over, utilize them there. >> Yeah. Just run one business that's good rather than two businesses that are mediocre. And if you run if you take if you steal all the A players, that business will grow. >> If all you did, let me ask you the question. Let's say if I said, hey, uh if you can get that business to a million dollars in profit per year, so you 4x the business from 600k to 2.4 4 million. All right. And I said, "I'm going to give you operator a million dollars if you do that and you have nothing else to do. Could you do it?" >> Yeah. >> Okay, let's do that. >> So figure out that that's the only thing to do and run. >> Yeah. And to be fair, there's nothing wrong with locksmith misb. It's just that you have two, one is crushing, one is not. one has way better contribution margin and you said you already have an established acquisition channel which means that we just need to do this turn it up >> but you can't turn it up because you're splitting your attention and so take the good guys turn it up crank it make the money it's still the same like they're both LLC's they both roll up to him and so if all of the LLC's in total make more money great even though the other one has more top line it makes it makes it makes no bottom line and so again I want to see like what are the true hard costs of that business. If the hard costs are smaller, like the true hard costs, right, are less than, >> yeah, >> then I would probably focus there. But this happens all the time. Like this is why I make so much content about focus because it just happens literally constantly. >> But you're in a rock and a hard place. You got one operator doing two things. Otherwise, the the alternative is you just got to go ham. The alternative is you got to go ham on on on getting a bunch of whales and then hope the other business doesn't drop because you're not paying attention to it and then that one starts going down and you're like, I got to fix this one. >> Sounds good. I appreciate it. >> Yeah. Hey dude, hang in there. I know you're working a lot. Um I appreciate that the stuff is has provided value. Um I just want you to win. So I'm just being more direct because we don't have that much time. >> Okay. Awesome. No, thanks. Appreciate it, man. and Scott, kudos on on building the acquisition funnel. Very cool. >> Thank you. >> All right, take it easy, bro. >> All right, live stream. Praguntas uh sales related. So, how do I overcome this is more expensive than I'm used to in my sales call. A lot of people come down to us for our price. Um, so it depends on basically you have a sales motion problem. doesn't necessarily even mean it's a scripting issue because if you're actually having to overcome it after you present price your likelihood of overcoming it will be lower than if you can avoid the question altogether by framing the conversation differently and so I don't know your specific business um but my bet is that if you are in a commoditized space then you will need to reframe the sale from local to global meaning uh if this guy and this guy you know provider A, B and C are all the same price um there are other factors outside of price that determine value. So how fast we can do it, how much rework we have to do, basically the risk associated with the purchase. How can we basically pay down all the other elements of value so that we can say yes uh well if all these were the same price which one would you pick? Me, right? which is why we're not the same price, which is why we're more expensive. Um, but you can do that because you probably are missing a VSSL before the call, which will frame the conversation properly and saying, "Hey, don't think about us like this because that's not the that's not the the business we're really in." And so when I say local versus global, the second element of that is you will save more money today locally or in this particular part of your project or your home or whatever um by going with another vendor. But globally over the value of your home or the value of this project, you actually pay a lot more money because it will take you longer. It will pay you'll pay more in rework and delays um and opportunity cost than you would. And so your return on investment will be superior if we just measured over a longer time period. And so that's fundamentally the the reframe that you have to do um if you want to be a premium price player. Okay. Can I fire my best salesperson? I have an employee who outperforms every other salesperson by a wide margin. Uh but she creates a ton of chaos in the office via demeaning others and bragging. I've given her warnings, but she's stuck in her ways. I'm afraid of firing her because she makes up so much of our sales. What should I do? Yeah, it's a tough one. Um, I've I've dealt with this before. Um, so I'll tell you I'll tell you both elements of this. So what we have to determine is why she is more successful. And that means she's doing some actions that the rest of the team is not doing. And so what I would want to do is probably isolate the rest of the team from her physically or you know emotionally and basically explain these are the successful actions that she is doing and these are the unsuccessful things that she is doing and I'd want to see some uptick there because as much as I'd love to say yes just fire her if you go bankrupt tomorrow then that's not good. Now if you do have a bit of a cash buffer and I don't know how big the team is. Um, when I have let go of what I'd call like your cancer cancer stars, um, the rest of the team will step up. Every time I have done it, the rest of the team makes up for the volume. None of them necessarily beats the star, but the whole team's average goes up. And then we don't actually see a drop in production overall. Um, but then it's way easier for us to get people to follow process because they're not like, well, the star doesn't have to go to practice. The star has all these exceptions. And so, um, that is how I that is how I mitigate that. But basically one number one isolate the variables the actions that she is taking that other people are not taking so you can tell them to take those correct actions to make more money. And then number two we basically want to create a 30 or 60-day plan where you say guys like and I would say maybe you play this a little closer to your chest if you've got uh some people on the team that you trust. You say listen I need you to pick up your game and if you can just get to here um I can make some significant changes on the team which will benefit everyone. You don't need to say you're going to fire her. You just need to say we're going to make some changes and you're going to like them. Um, and then also actively like go look for other sales people that want to follow your process. But whenever I see somebody who's dramatically outperforming everyone else, that usually means there's a lack of process and lack of training because everyone does if you have a bunch of killers and everyone's following the killer process, then everyone makes a lot of money. Okay. Uh, what is the best sales motion for high ticket local service with a TAM of only 300 people? Okay. I'm selling spraying service to farmers with drones. They don't like change. how do I overcome that? Um, I I would imagine that you're probably talking about how you're doing it rather than the outcome. And so, it's kind of like the businesses that are like, "Hey, we do AI content editing." It's like, no one cares that you're using AI in your content editing. We just care that the videos are well edited and posted. And so, your spray, right? like you should be able to do it for less than the people who are spraying with I don't know what the less efficient way I'm guessing than drones is but I'm sure there is that's the one that they're used to doing. So you should either have a speed premium like you can do it faster than other people can um or you can do it more effectively or more targeted than other people can um or cheaper than other people can. But at the most basic level you should be able to win on multiple fronts because technology is one of the only advancements that happens in business where you can actually get better faster and cheaper. And so, um, I think that the fact that you might be telling them about the drones and trying to sell them on drones rather than just selling them the outcome. Um, and if you really have a hard time in an entrenched market, um, I would just say do it for free or do it for hard cost and just say, "Listen, if you hate it, I'll [ __ ] eat it." You know what I mean? Um, because I think they're not willing to take on some level of risk. So, I would change the sales motion and then if that still doesn't work, which of course it will, but let's assume that you execute it poorly. Um, I would take risk on so that I can take risk off them because if I really do believe my thing's better, you just got to get as many people as possible to try it. All right. How do I sell without case studies? Almost every prospect asks for that. I have a cold email agency, bro. Get case studies. What are we talking about? Do work for free. If you're starting out and you have no track record, you should go get a track record for free. Like you working for free is still a better deal for you than it is for them. I don't know. I don't know how people get stuck on that one. I think people believe the whole like don't don't serve people for free. Like charge what you're worth. Dude, currently you're worth nothing. No one wants to pay you. You're not worth anything right now. And okay, as a human being, sure you've got lots of value to the market for your skills. Low and that's okay. I want to be that's fine. Everybody starts at zero. Everybody sucks when they start. But like I I I I do this now, dude. Like when I have a new service or new product I want to launch, there's a reason I have beta users, right? I just say like, "Dude, it's free. Come on, help me get the kinks out of it." Because you want to have a good reputation. And so you say, "Hey, in exchange for basically me not being that good because I can't be good on the first time you do it because you haven't learned anything yet, right? And if it's your second or your third, right? If it is your second or third, why don't you have case studies? because it probably isn't that good from the second or third ones that you did, right? Yeah. Um and so yeah, you need to start for free. You need to learn more than you earn for this little period. And then once you stack up a bunch of free case studies, some of them will be willing to pay you. Some of them will refer you their business. And some of them just their case study alone will get you the business you want. But a case study or free client pays you in three ways. You learn more than you earn. You get them as a customer. You get the referrals from them. And then bonus, their reviews themselves will get you customers. So, there's four reasons that you can just help them for free and it is worth your time and you get the better end of the deal. All right. Um, how do I get better at sales without being pushy? Uh, I know how I feel when someone tries to sell me something and I can sense their tactics. I understand it's part of the job, but I want to come off salesy and pushy. How do I get better at this? Okay, really good reframe for you. What you don't like is bad salesmanship, not salesmanship. So you said it is part of the job which means that you have decided that this is part of what good selling is which is incorrect. You have bought many things over the last month and there was a person or a team of people who thought about getting you to buy and you probably were very happy to buy many of the things that you bought over the last month. And so the idea is that we want to sell better rather than sell harder. Very important distinction. Now, what's likely happening is that you're talking to either underqualified customers or customers who have not been pre-framed or educated enough prior to you speaking with them. That being said, the way that you maintain the frame in the close after a price objection is that you have to agree with what they're saying and then simply ask a follow-up question. Right? Again, you cannot disprove someone and close the sale because no one wants to buy from somebody who proved them wrong. you need to add to their logic, not negate their logic, right? And so if someone says, for example, I don't think uh I can do this uh financially, I'd be like, I totally understand it's expensive. It makes a lot of sense that you'd say that. Um do you think that maybe the reason that you're in the position you're in right now is because you've been able make investments like this in the past and now we're kind of just paying off the debt for it, right? Right? And again, a lot of this is with the tonality that we can keep with the prospect. But again, if you're trying to win the sale post objection, you're not going to win the majority of your sales there. Like you want you will close the majority of your sales after you ask them to buy if they are qualified to buy and they've been pre-framed properly and the script up to the point of sale uh where you actually ask for the the the sale um has been done properly. And so typically it means that you missed points in the intro and the discovery portion rather than trying to close harder. Like you closing harder and having objection overcoming stuff that you have to practice is last resort. It is not sales. It is what happens when sales go wrong. All right. So apparently I have a a flight that I have to catch and I'm getting DMs. Uh so I have to go. I told you I was trying to give I'm trying to do as many of these as I can um over a 30-day period. And so, um, I know this one was shorter. I love you all. Um, thank you for the sales related questions. I'm going to pick up and do more sales related stuff because some of the questions are really good. Um, and I'm going to come back. If you guys like the theme, I know it was really short. Let us know. Otherwise, be fruitful and multiply. Bye.